1. Of course ASAP is only one of three performance rights societies in the US, you could also be beholden to BMG or SESAC.

Posted at 8:48PM on Oct 19th 2006 by zach

2. Sorry to have to correct some typos...but isn't it ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC?

Posted at 10:26PM on Oct 19th 2006 by steve

3. ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC

Posted at 10:28PM on Oct 19th 2006 by Sean

4. Songwriters are small businessmen, generally speaking. They depend on ASCAP, BMI and SESAC to negotiate fees so they can be paid as creator and owner of the copyright.

ASCAP bases it's fees on things like the seating capacity and gross revenue. If a copyrighted song is being used to draw customers and add to someone's financial bottom line, then a fee is to be paid. This goes for every venue that uses copyrighted music as an attraction, in any way, shape or form.

Not all songs will be used in live performances by rich, high-profile musicians. They can afford to "give it away," at least for a short time. Most songs are written by someone who spends the hours and the legwork because it promises a decent payoff if they are successful.

It's not all "rich people" ripping off the poor general public for no reason. But, if I'm used to stealing whatever isn't tied down for my own personal use, especially if I feel that "the man" will never find out, I may find this hard to stomach.

As someone who tried to make it as a songwriter in Nashville many years ago, I remember that the thing that attracted me most was the hope that I could 1) get my stuff recorded, 2) make some decent bucks, not necessarily in that order.

The article has a serious disconnect, by the way. If someone has a band that "plays there own music," there isn't a problem as long as the writers in the band are not affiliated with ASCAP, BMI or SESAC. (You don't "join" these performing rights organizations.) It's when they play OTHER people's music.

And, it would a rare bar or night club owner that doesn't know about this, in my opinion. It's all part of running the business. Not all choose to comply, and instead claim ignorance. As far as the bar owner at issue, I suspect that he could pay his fee over a period of time, as long as he agreed to comply in the future.

I find it interesting that those who claim that there is a right to glom on to other people's stuff are usually, with a few exceptions, on the receiving end and not the losing end. And, I suspect that those exceptions are just cow-towing to their fans so they prolong their rebel personna and therefore their popularity. If they were down to their last venue and broke, I believe that they'd be trying to recover every dollar they could on all the songs they wrote along the way to boom and bust.

Posted at 7:32PM on Jan 22nd 2007 by Johnny

5. Yes, ASCAP should be the last name on your list of evil empires. They represent and collect fees for the artists who register with them to do so. So in that case we should hate the artist for "hiring" ASCAP to go after bar owners and somehow ruin the party. Agencies like ASCAP monitor "performances" of music, which means any time music is heard...ring tones, elevator muzak, concerts, hold music on corporate phones systems.

I agree with Johnny that any bar owner who doesn't know this and builds it into their business' budget is more than naive.

While it's true that it's posible to have an establishment that plays ONLY copyright-safe music (meaning it's CC or public domain or by the artist performing it) it would be difficult to ensure that all artists NEVER play a cover by an ASCAP artist. In this way the license fee is basically insurance.

Is it a perfect system? No. I don't know the model that addresses all of this, but I do want people to be able to make their living creating the music that we obviously love so much we'd want to hear a cover band play it. And the bar certainly wants to sell high-margin alcohol to fans, right?

Posted at 11:09PM on Oct 19th 2006 by roymond

6. I still beg to differ. The way to fix this situation is to negotiate a reasonable fee plus some reasonable penalty, with the bar owner. Suing him out of business doesn't help ASCAP, it doesn't help the artists and it's certainly not good for publicity.

30,000 per song isn't a reasonable penalty. I'd also wager real money that, if in fact ASCAP does collect 30,000 for a penalty on that performance of Wind Cries Mary, that the rights holder to same won't see a portion of the penalty collected.

Posted at 12:02AM on Oct 20th 2006 by Grant Robertson

7. While I agree that composers/ songwriters do need a form of representation to make sure that their work isn't stolen, this is taking it waaaaaaaaay too far. There needs to be a judgement call made as to whether the performance of a copyrighted song will adversely affect the songwriter, and a local bar band playing cover tunes would NOT be a good call for litigation.

If anything, by local bands playing those songs, it's bringing MORE attention to the original song, and opening up people's ears to hearing it in different ways. As long as the cover band doesn't claim to have written the song, there is absolutely no damage done. Besides, someone could turn that same song on through a jukebox 50 times in a row throughout the night, and I doubt ASCAP would ever come in and sue them for $30,000 for it.

Posted at 9:45AM on Oct 20th 2006 by Ryan Sette

8. I didn't see a link to the original article in this post (which is kind of ironic in context), but I sincerely doubt that ASCAP jumped right to the lawsuit stage without trying to negotiate a reasonable settlement of their claim. Most likely the bar owner blew off their demand letters and made no effort to contact ASCAP's attorneys.

Posted at 10:03AM on Oct 20th 2006 by Steve F

9. If your a bar owner and a musician as well as belonging to ASCAP or BMI as a writer do you still have to pay ASCAP or BMI royaltyies to play your own song in your own bar and if you didn't would you get sued for playing your own song in your own bar????

Posted at 5:31PM on Oct 23rd 2006 by X-Man

10. You can play your own songs with no fee. You can have the original songwriter perform with no fees. The thing is they don't keep track of the songs these places play. So how do they properly distribute the money? The little guys that are registered with them get nothing while the big bands get it all. If you or me writes a song we wont get nothing.

Posted at 11:17AM on Oct 28th 2006 by JET

11. Ryan said: "If anything, by local bands playing those songs, it's bringing MORE attention to the original song, and opening up people's ears to hearing it in different ways. As long as the cover band doesn't claim to have written the song, there is absolutely no damage done. Besides, someone could turn that same song on through a jukebox 50 times in a row throughout the night, and I doubt ASCAP would ever come in and sue them for $30,000 for it."

It's not about whether the artist is hurt by performances of their songs by cover bands. It's about whether the bar is making money by such performances. And it is, by selling drinks and food to the patrons who came to hear...the music. I agree that things seem out of proportion and that the solution isn't perfect.

And, Jukeboxes are covered by ASCAP and BMI fees. I don't know if the jukebox company pays or the bar, but there is a license obtained to have those songs there. As with most of these licenses, it's not for each play, but for the entire catalog, which then gets split among members according to insane formulas. Although, as more digital jukeboxes are able to report specific performances (similar to how Muzak services have evolved), this may change.

Posted at 2:11PM on Oct 30th 2006 by roymond

12. I wonder how many cover songs Johnny played in bars before he started writing his own songs? How much did he get paid while learning his craft? Do you think he paid any fees to ASCAP? Do you think any of the places he played in paid royalties? Come on, now Johnny. Be honest. How many of the rest of you claiming to be songwriters started out instantly playing your own songs? I think the percentage is pretty small. While Imbibe might be at the upper end of the bar scene and able to afford $2000 for royalties, what about the small strip center lounge/watering hole where little Billy and the boys just starting out have a one night stand? Does it matter how bad the band is covering the song? What if they totally screw up the song? do they still have to pay? You so called songwriters need to keep working just like the rest of us. An architect doesn't get royalties everytime one of his designs is resold. He has to keep creating. So keep writing and shutup ;)

Posted at 8:36AM on Dec 6th 2006 by chunt

13. The law is completely unenforceable - I've never met a successful musician that wasn't flattered by a bands interpretation of their original work. It's absolute bullshit to think that a millionaire musician would even bother with pursuing a nightclub or venue over this. This means MORE record sales for them - duh!

This is all about ASCAP and BMI justifying they're existence - this goes way beyond artist rights - this is extortion - people, all these organizations care about is their bottom line - what does the artist get in the end? Pennies on the dollar.

I have written, performed my own music and played many covers throughout my career and NEVER seen this become an issue. In fact a lot of people will come up to you after a show and ask who the artist and song was so they in turn can go BUY the record!

Quite frankly incase you haven't noticed the whole music landscape has changed and will continue to over the next few years - it's not about record sales anymore due to piracy - it's all coming back to the live experience and really pushing the songs in new directions.

Let them come with their clipboards and handheld recorders - we'll give em' our best version of Stairway to Freebird - try auditing that one out at the staff meeting you corporate bobo's!

Posted at 9:54AM on Dec 3rd 2006 by Drew

14. The law is completely unenforceable - I've never met a successful musician that wasn't flattered by a bands interpretation of their original work. It's absolute BS to think that a millionaire musician would even bother with pursuing a nightclub or venue over this. This means MORE record sales for them - duh!

This is all about ASCAP and BMI justifying they're existence - this goes way beyond artist rights - this is extortion - people, all these organizations care about is their bottom line - what does the artist get in the end? Pennies on the dollar.

I have written, performed my own music and played many covers throughout my career and NEVER seen this become an issue. In fact a lot of people will come up to you after a show and ask who the artist and song was so they in turn can go BUY the record!

Quite frankly incase you haven't noticed the whole music landscape has changed and will continue to over the next few years - it's not about record sales anymore due to piracy - it's all coming back to the live experience and really pushing the songs in new directions.

Let them come with their clipboards and handheld recorders - we'll give em' our best version of Stairway to Freebird - try auditing that one out at the staff meeting you corporate bobo's!

Posted at 9:53AM on Dec 3rd 2006 by Drew